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Conversations with Robert Matthews, 9–11 November 1835

Source Note

JS, Conversations with , [, Geauga Co., OH], 9–11 Nov. 1835. Featured version copied [ca. 11 Nov. 1835] in JS, Journal, 1835–1836, pp. 22–29; handwriting of ; JS Collection, CHL. For more complete source information, see the source note for JS, Journal, 1835–1836.

Historical Introduction

, also known as Joshua the Jewish minister or the Prophet Matthias, visited , Ohio, and conversed with JS from 9 to 11 November 1835. In the early 1820s, Matthews proclaimed himself an Israelite, temporarily identified himself with the Zionist movement of Manuel Mordecai Noah, and came to reject Christianity. In , New York, in 1830 and in , New York, in 1831, Matthews launched his career as a religious figure, calling himself the Prophet Matthias, and sought to win over recent converts of Charles G. Finney’s revivals. In 1832, Matthews gained a small following and converted Elijah Pierson, a man of wealth who in February 1830 had organized an independent Christian perfectionist church on Bowery Hill in . Pierson died from an apparent poisoning in early August 1834, and Matthews, who claimed ownership over Pierson’s property following his death, was charged with murder. Matthews was acquitted of that charge, but immediately after the acquittal he was tried and sentenced to three months in jail for beating his adult daughter and obtaining money under false pretenses; thirty days were added to his sentence for contempt of court. Suffering from internal dissension, compounded by the public spectacle and press coverage of the trials and Matthews’s four-month incarceration, his religious experiment in crumbled in 1835.
Three months after his release from jail in in August 1835, was reported to be traveling in . The 5 November issue of the Western Reserve Chronicle detailed Matthews’s travels in Ohio and noted that while in Warren, Ohio, Matthews “inquired the way to , where, perhaps, he has gone to join the ‘democratic’ community of Mormons, at .” Prior to Matthews’s arrival in Kirtland, the Painesville Telegraph also notified the Geauga County community of his presence, publishing two articles that labeled him as a deluded religious fraud.
On the morning of 9 November, , calling himself “Joshua the Jewish minister,” arrived at the home of JS in . JS did not initially recognize him as the notorious figure Matthias, and Matthews’s visit prompted him to relate the “circumstances connected with the coming forth of the book of Mormon,” including an account of his first vision of Deity. The narrative JS presented to Matthews, one of the few early written accounts of this vision, expands upon some of the details found in JS’s circa summer 1832 history, which is the earliest extant account of JS’s first vision. In his telling of the event to Matthews, JS included details such as the presence of “two personages” as well as “many angels” in the “silent grove.” The narrative also provides an account of the visit he received in 1823 from an “Angel,” later identified as Moroni, who described “a sacred record which was written on plates of gold,” and it gives the timeline for JS’s obtaining of the plates.
JS hosted for the next two days and invited him to expound on his religious views, but he ultimately denounced his visitor and told him to leave. Nevertheless, regional newspapers reported on the visit of Matthews and JS and claimed that the two were joining forces. The Daily Cleveland Herald stated, “The impostor who lately figured so conspicuously in the city of , has turned Mormon; and, as we learn from the Chardon Spectator, is now at in that county, in high favor with the prophet Joe Smith.” The Ohio Repository, published in Canton, noted that “eastern papers state this impostor has taken up his abode among the Mormons, on the borders of the Lake, in this —and that both himself and his doctrines are received with great favor by them.” More aligned with JS’s journal account, the Painesville Telegraph reported a much less favorable interaction between JS and Matthews. In an article titled “Prophet Catch Prophet,” the Telegraph stated, “The notorious impostor Matthias has performed a pilgrimage to the temple of the equally notorious Joe Smith, where he held forth his doctrines last week. It appears that the new pretender met with less encouragement than he anticipated from the Latter-Day-ites, and after a two days conference the Prophets parted, each declaring he had miraculously discerned a devil in the other!” By the end of November 1835, the New York Herald informed its readers that “Matthias has not joined the Mormons” but added sarcastically that “if they have pretty women among them no doubt he will.” No interaction between JS and Matthews after 11 November 1835 is known, though a July 1837 report in the Baltimore Gazette and Daily Advertiser noted that Matthews was back in northeastern Ohio “to regulate the Mormonites, at , and spread his new doctrines among the benighted of the west.”
’s visit to JS was recorded in JS’s journal by . Residue from an adhesive wafer at the top of page 25 of JS’s 1835–1836 journal—as well as some paper residue still stuck to the wafer residue—indicates that a loose leaf had been attached in the journal and suggests that part of the entry for 9–11 November 1835 was probably copied into the journal from an earlier manuscript, which is no longer extant.

Footnotes

  1. [1]

    JS, Journal, 9–11 Nov. 1835.

  2. [2]

    Johnson and Wilentz, Kingdom of Matthias, 62–68, 94–95, 103–104.

    Johnson, Paul E., and Sean Wilentz. The Kingdom of Matthias. New York: Oxford University Press, 1994.

  3. [3]

    Johnson and Wilentz, Kingdom of Matthias, 32, 79–100. The idea of Christian perfectionism derived from John Wesley’s A Plain Account of Christian Perfection, which describes the journey of an individual to the state of perfection or sanctification through the purity of intention and dedication of one’s life to God. (Wesley, Plain Account, 3–5, 172.)

    Johnson, Paul E., and Sean Wilentz. The Kingdom of Matthias. New York: Oxford University Press, 1994.

    Wesley, John. A Plain Account of Christian Perfection, as Believed and Taught by the Rev. John Wesley, from the Year 1725, to the Year 1777. New York: Lane an dScott, 1850.

  4. [4]

    Johnson and Wilentz, Kingdom of Matthias, 137–164.

    Johnson, Paul E., and Sean Wilentz. The Kingdom of Matthias. New York: Oxford University Press, 1994.

  5. [5]

    “Matthias,” Western Reserve Chronicle (Warren, OH), 5 Nov. 1835, [2]; “Matthias,” Cleveland Whig, 11 Nov. 1835, [3].

    Western Reserve Chronicle. Warren, OH. 1816–1854.

    Cleveland Whig. Cleveland. 1834–1836.

  6. [6]

    “Matthias, the Impostor,” Painesville (OH) Telegraph, 8 May 1835, [2]; 24 July 1835, [2].

    Painesville Telegraph. Painesville, OH. 1822–1986.

  7. [7]

    Substantial differences between the two versions of JS’s vision are noted in the footnotes to the text featured here; compare JS History, ca. Summer 1832, 1–6.

  8. [8]

    JS, Journal, 9–11 Nov. 1835; Historical Introduction to History, ca. Summer 1832; [JS], Editorial, Elders’ Journal, July 1838, 42–44. For JS’s other accounts of his first vision of Deity, visit from the angel, and finding of the gold plates, see JS History, vol. A-1, 1–34; and JS, “Church History,” Times and Seasons, 1 Mar. 1842, 3:706–707; see also Oliver Cowdery’s letters published in the LDS Messenger and Advocate, Oct. 1834–July 1835, copied in JS History, 1834–1836, pp. 46–50, 62–65, 81–99, in JSP, H1:40–44, 57–60, 73–86.

  9. [9]

    “The Notorious Matthias,” Daily Cleveland Herald, 17 Nov. 1835, [2], italics in original.

    Daily Cleveland Herald. Cleveland. 1835–1837.

  10. [10]

    “Mathias,” Ohio Repository (Canton), 19 Nov. 1835, [3].

    Ohio Repository. Canton. 1830–1868.

  11. [11]

    “Prophet Catch Prophet,” Painesville (OH) Telegraph, 20 Nov. 1835, 3, italics in original.

    Painesville Telegraph. Painesville, OH. 1822–1986.

  12. [12]

    “Matthias,” New York Herald, 28 Nov. 1835, [2].

    New York Herald. New York City. 1835–1924.

  13. [13]

    “Matthias, the Prophet,” Baltimore Gazette and Daily Advertiser, 17 July 1837, [2].

    Baltimore Gazette and Daily Advertiser. Baltimore. 1825–1838.

  14. [14]

    JS, Journal, 9–11 Nov. 1835.

Asterisk (*) denotes a "featured" version, which includes an introduction and annotation. *Conversations with Robert Matthews, 9–11 November 1835 Journal, 1835–1836 History, 1834–1836

Page 29

since, after some, equivocating he confessed that he was realy : after supper I proposed that he should deliver a lecture to us, he did so sitting in his chair; he commenced by saying God said let there be light and there was light, which he dwelt upon through his discource, he made some verry exelent remarks but his mind was evidently filled with darkness, after he dismissed his meeting, and the congregation disperced, he conversed freely upon the circumstances that transpired in ,
His name is , he say[s] that Joshua, is his priestly name.
during all this time I did not contradict his sentiments, wishing to draw out all that I could concerning his faith; the next morning Tuesday 10th I resumed the conversation and desired him to enlighten my mind more on his views respecting the resurection, he says that he poss[ess]es the spirit of his fathers, that he is a litteral decendant of Mathias the Apostle that was chosen in the place of Judas that fell and that his spirit is resurected in him, and that this is the way or scheme of eternal life, this transmigration of soul or spirit from Father to Son: I told him that his doctrine was of the Devil that he was in reality in possession of wicked and depraved spirit, although he professed to be the spirit of truth, it self, also that he possesses the soul of Christ; he tarried until Wednesday 11.th, after breckfast I told him, that my God told me that his God is the Devil, and I could not keep him any longer, and he must depart, and so I for once cast out the Devil in bodily shape, & I believe a murderer [p. 29]
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Document Information

Related Case Documents
Editorial Title
Conversations with Robert Matthews, 9–11 November 1835
ID #
6734
Total Pages
8
Print Volume Location
JSP, D5:39–47
Handwriting on This Page
  • Warren Parrish

Footnotes

  1. [21]

    See Genesis 1:3.

  2. [22]

    Matthews declared himself “chief high Priest of the Jews.” (Johnson and Wilentz, Kingdom of Matthias, 145.)

    Johnson, Paul E., and Sean Wilentz. The Kingdom of Matthias. New York: Oxford University Press, 1994.

  3. [23]

    See Acts 1:15–26.

  4. [24]

    Matthews claimed to have the same “spirit of Truth” that was once within the New Testament apostle Matthias, whom the eleven apostles chose to replace Judas after Judas’s betrayal. (Johnson and Wilentz, Kingdom of Matthias, 94–95; Acts 1:23–26.)

    Johnson, Paul E., and Sean Wilentz. The Kingdom of Matthias. New York: Oxford University Press, 1994.

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