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Letter to Vilate Murray Kimball, 2 March 1841

Source Note

JS, Letter, , Hancock Co., IL, to , , Hancock Co., IL, 2 Mar. 1841; handwriting of ; one page; Helen Vilate Bourne Fleming, Collection, CHL. Includes docket.
One leaf measuring 12¼ × 7½ inches (31 × 19 cm). This document contains three horizontal and two vertical folds and has some discoloration.
The letter was docketed by , who served as JS’s scribe from 1843 to 1844 and as clerk to the church historian and recorder from 1845 to 1865. The letter was in a collection of papers held by Helen Vilate Bourne Fleming, a descendant of and . The collection was passed down to Fleming’s descendant Helen Marian Fleming Petersen. Shortly after Petersen’s death in February 1988, one of her children found this letter and other items in a box in Petersen’s home. By December 1988 the materials had been donated to the Church Historical Department (now CHL).

Footnotes

  1. [1]

    Jessee, “Writing of Joseph Smith’s History,” 456, 458; Woodruff, Journal, 22 Jan. 1865.

    Jessee, Dean C. “The Writing of Joseph Smith’s History.” BYU Studies 11 (Summer 1971): 439–473.

    Woodruff, Wilford. Journals, 1833–1898. Wilford Woodruff, Journals and Papers, 1828–1898. CHL. MS 1352.

  2. [2]

    See the full bibliographic entry for Helen Vilate Bourne Fleming, Collection, 1836–1963, in the CHL catalog.

Historical Introduction

Dictated by JS on 2 March 1841, this letter to was written in response to her request for advice on a delicate situation involving a young woman living in the Kimball home. It is unclear what exactly transpired or who was involved. However, some contextual and circumstantial evidence suggests the young woman was Elizabeth Ravenscroft, a twenty-year-old straw-bonnet maker from Burslem, Staffordshire, England. Ravenscroft joined the in 1839. Thereafter, she proselytized all over Staffordshire and became acquainted with many church leaders, including , , and . Because of her proselytizing efforts, Ravenscroft became known among some church members as “a Woman of God.” On 8 September 1840, she departed with Turley and approximately two hundred other British Saints on the ship North America, bound for the . After an arduous journey across the Atlantic and the eastern United States, Ravenscroft, Turley, and approximately one hundred British Saints arrived in , Illinois, on 24 November 1840.
Shortly after the British Saints arrived in , wrote to her husband, , who was still in . She reported that several of the English sisters had visited her home and that Ravenscroft was living with her and would continue to do so for the foreseeable future. “I tell her she may stay until she can get a better home,” Vilate declared, but “she thinks that will not be soon. she says she expects I will be for turning her away when you come home, but she will not go.” Finally, Vilate assessed Ravenscroft’s character, noting, “She is a fine girl, we take much comfort togather. she says she is quite contented, and happy.” In his reply, Heber wrote, “I am glad Elisabeth is with you I hope she will be a good girl and stay with you till I come home.” Although Ravenscroft is not named in the letter featured here, she is the only woman known to have resided with Vilate and her family in the months before the letter was written.
The “stir in the Church” referenced by JS in his letter to , and which presumably involved Ravenscroft, is much less clear. One possibility may be connected to charges brought before the against in late January 1841. Several of the Saints who were on the ship North America with Ravenscroft charged Turley with “unchristian conduct while on the sea.” This was for “romping and kissing the females and dancing,” for “sleeping with two females coming up the Lakes and on the road to s ferry,” and for two other incidents that occurred during the journey from . Turley’s case was heard before the high council on 6 February 1841. The high council affirmed “the President’s decision” about Turley’s case: that Turley, “in order to retain his fellowship, should acknowledge, both before the Council, and also, to a publick congregation, that he had acted unwisely, unjustly, imprudently, and unbecoming, and that he had set a bad example before his brethren and sisters as he was coming over from Europe.” Turley then made a confession “to the satisfaction of the Council, and stated that he would rejoice in the opportunity of making the like confession before the publick.”
Commenting on the British Saints and in a letter to her husband, , Mary Ann Angell Young stated: “I must truly say my heart has been pained with the example some here set Before the world while journeying from . I feel to disaprove of the fermilaryties that some are in faviour of in that country. . . . Br Turley was very poor when he came home and his appearance on the jorney from England was very disgusting to many respectable people. He Repented and came back into the Church again.” It is possible that Elizabeth Ravenscroft was identified as one of the women with whom Turley was acting imprudently. If that was the case, may have been seeking advice from JS as to the propriety of continuing to house Ravenscroft.

Footnotes

  1. [1]

    Cordon, Reminiscences and Journal, 1839–1840, 14–16; Passenger Lists of Vessels Arriving at New York, 1820–1897, roll 44 (16 Sept. 1840–10 May 1841), Manifest 779, microfilm 2,289, U.S. and Canada Record Collection, FHL. William Clayton noted on 1 July 1840 that he “recieved a bonnet for my little Sarah from E Ravenscroft.” (Clayton, Diary, 1 July 1840.)

    Cordon, Alfred. Reminiscences and Journals, 1839–1850, 1868. CHL.

    U.S. and Canada Record Collection. FHL.

    Clayton, William. Diary, Vol. 1, 1840–1842. BYU.

  2. [2]

    Ravenscroft was baptized by William Clayton in Burslem on 26 July 1839. (Cordon, Reminiscences and Journal, 1839–1840, 16.)

    Cordon, Alfred. Reminiscences and Journals, 1839–1850, 1868. CHL.

  3. [3]

    Cordon, Reminiscences and Journal, 1839–1840, 62–63; Clayton, Diary, 21 Mar. 1840; 18 and 23 Apr. 1840; Needham, Autobiography and Journal, 15–16; Heber C. Kimball, London, England, to Vilate Murray Kimball, Nauvoo, IL, 19 Aug. 1840, Heber C. Kimball, Letters, CHL.

    Cordon, Alfred. Reminiscences and Journals, 1839–1850, 1868. CHL.

    Clayton, William. Diary, Vol. 1, 1840–1842. BYU.

    Needham, John. Autobiography and Journal, 1840–1842. CHL.

    Kimball, Heber C. Letters, 1839–1854. Photocopy. CHL.

  4. [4]

    Cordon, Reminiscences and Journal, 1839–1840, 21.

    Cordon, Alfred. Reminiscences and Journals, 1839–1850, 1868. CHL.

  5. [5]

    Passenger Lists of Vessels Arriving at New York, 1820–1897, roll 44 (16 Sept. 1840–10 May 1841), Manifest 779, microfilm 2,289, U.S. and Canada Record Collection, FHL; John Taylor, Liverpool, England, to Leonora Cannon Taylor, Nauvoo, IL, 6 Sept. 1840, John Taylor, Collection, CHL; Clayton, Diary, 8 Sept. 1840.

    U.S. and Canada Record Collection. FHL.

    Clayton, William. Diary, Vol. 1, 1840–1842. BYU.

  6. [6]

    The remainder of the British group stopped in Kirtland, Ohio. (See Letter to Quorum of the Twelve, 15 Dec. 1840; see also Editorial, Times and Seasons, 1 Dec. 1840, 2:233; and Orson Pratt, Edinburgh, Scotland, to George A. Smith, Burslem, England, 1 Feb. 1841, George Albert Smith, Papers, CHL.)

    Times and Seasons. Commerce/Nauvoo, IL. Nov. 1839–Feb. 1846.

    Smith, George Albert. Papers, 1834–1877. CHL. MS 1322.

  7. [7]

    Vilate Murray Kimball, Nauvoo, IL, to Heber C. Kimball, Leek, England, 8 Dec. 1840, photocopy, Vilate Murray Kimball, Letters, CHL. Heber previously wrote to Vilate, “Thare is one sister I Expect will go in the company with Elder Turly if she does she will come to see you her name is Elisebeth Ravencroft she is a fine sister Receive hur into your hous she can tell you much about me.” (Heber C. Kimball, London, England, to Vilate Murray Kimball, Nauvoo, IL, 19 Aug. 1840, Heber C. Kimball, Letters, CHL.)

    Kimball, Vilate Murray. Letters, 1840. Photocopy. CHL.

    Kimball, Heber C. Letters, 1839–1854. Photocopy. CHL.

  8. [8]

    Vilate Murray Kimball, Nauvoo, IL, to Heber C. Kimball, Leek, England, 8 Dec. 1840, photocopy, Vilate Murray Kimball, Letters, CHL.

    Kimball, Vilate Murray. Letters, 1840. Photocopy. CHL.

  9. [9]

    Heber C. Kimball, London, England, to Vilate Murray Kimball, Nauvoo, IL, 27–29 Jan. 1841, Heber C. Kimball Collection, CHL.

    Kimball, Heber C. Collection, 1837–1898. CHL. MS 12476.

  10. [10]

    William Niswanger et al., Charges against Theodore Turley, 26 Jan. 1841, Nauvoo High Council Papers, CHL.

    Nauvoo High Council Papers, 1839–1844. CHL. LR 3102 23.

  11. [11]

    Though Turley was charged with this impropriety, Turley also attempted, according to William Clayton, to police fraternization between the sailors and the Latter-day Saint women. Clayton wrote that Turley spoke “much concerning the sisters keeping themselves from the sailors.” (Clayton, Diary, 29 Sept. 1840.)

    Clayton, William. Diary, Vol. 1, 1840–1842. BYU.

  12. [12]

    The toilsome journey from New York City to Nauvoo required unusual sleeping arrangements. William Clayton later commented on some of the immigrants’ accommodations on the road from Chicago to Dixon: “At Dixon we engaged a empty house to sleep in. There was no fire place in the house consequently we had to cook out of doors. The weather was cold, but in other respects favourable. About 70 besides children slept in the same house. At this place as well as all along the way from Chicago the natives manifested a great desire for our young women to remain with them. And at Dixon the whole company was desired to tarry and settle with them.” These unconventional sleeping arrangements as well as the mild disciplinary action taken against Turley make it difficult to determine the extent of Turley’s impropriety. (William Clayton, Nauvoo, IL, to Edward Martin, Preston, England, 29 Nov. 1840, Nauvoo Restoration, Incorporated, Collection, CHL.)

    Nauvoo Restoration, Incorporated. Collection, 1818–2001. CHL. MS 9622.

  13. [13]

    William Niswanger et al., Charges against Theodore Turley, 26 Jan. 1841, Nauvoo High Council Papers, CHL; Nauvoo High Council Minutes, 6 Feb. 1841.

    Nauvoo High Council Papers, 1839–1844. CHL. LR 3102 23.

    Nauvoo High Council Minutes, 1839–1845. CHL. LR 3102 22.

  14. [14]

    It is not clear if the “President” referred to here is Nauvoo stake president William Marks or JS, the president of the church, in whose office the council met. (Nauvoo High Council Minutes, 6 Feb. 1841.)

    Nauvoo High Council Minutes, 1839–1845. CHL. LR 3102 22.

  15. [15]

    Nauvoo High Council Minutes, 6 Feb. 1841.

    Nauvoo High Council Minutes, 1839–1845. CHL. LR 3102 22.

  16. [16]

    Mary Ann Angell Young, Nauvoo, IL, to Brigham Young, New York City, NY, 15 Apr. 1841, Brigham Young Office Files, CHL.

    Brigham Young Office Files, 1832–1878. CHL. CR 1234 1.

Page [1]

City of March 2, 1841
Dear .
I can in some measure enter into your feelings respecting the occurrence which has lately taken place in the , which is indeed painful to every lover of Truth and Holiness, and probably to none more so than myself. I am indeed sorry that any thing should have transpired which should have caused such a stir in the Church, and bro’t [brought] disgrace upon persons who are otherwise respectable. The course I have taken in the matter was such as I felt warranted to take from the testimony which was adduced. Whether they were guilty of crime or not I do not say, but this I must say that their imprudence was carried to an unwarrantable extent.
I do not desire that you should turn the young woman out of doors, far be it from me to advise any such course I think it would be well for her to remain with you at least until comes home, because I think that your advise to her, may be a blessi[n]g to her, and your council and advise such as will tend to her future welfare and happiness. I have no doubt but you will act in wisdom in this matter & remain very Yours in the Gospel
Joseph Smith [p. [1]]
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Document Information

Related Case Documents
Editorial Title
Letter to Vilate Murray Kimball, 2 March 1841
ID #
1503
Total Pages
2
Print Volume Location
JSP, D8:58–62
Handwriting on This Page
  • Robert B. Thompson

Footnotes

  1. [1]

    As a member of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles, Heber C. Kimball had been serving a mission in the British Isles since 1840. He returned to his home in Nauvoo on 1 July 1841. (Kimball, Journal, 18 Feb.–9 Mar. 1840; Heber C. Kimball, Nauvoo, IL, 4 Aug. 1841, Letter to the Editors, Times and Seasons, 16 Aug. 1841, 2:507–511.)

    Kimball, Heber C. Journal, June 1837–Feb. 1838; Feb.–Mar. 1840; May 1846–Feb. 1847. Heber C. Kimball, Papers, 1837–1866. CHL. MS 627, box 3, fd. 2.

    Times and Seasons. Commerce/Nauvoo, IL. Nov. 1839–Feb. 1846.

  2. [2]

    If this indeed refers to Elizabeth Ravenscroft, it appears that Vilate’s influence and counsel helped the young Briton in her faith and activity in the church. Alfred Cordon, a church member in England, remarked in his journal that he received a letter from Ravenscroft on 16 September 1841. Ravenscroft’s letter, according to Cordon, stated that she was “well and enjoying herself” in Nauvoo. Ravenscroft also “wrote concerning the glorious priveledges she had of hearing the word of life, and the Eternal principals of the Gospel of the Son of God, and that she had, had, the priveledge of being baptized for several that are dead.” (Cordon, Reminiscences and Journal, 1841–1844, 9–10.)

    Cordon, Alfred. Reminiscences and Journals, 1839–1850, 1868. CHL.

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